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  • Breach of Contract (Lifetime) members, analysis.

    Discussion in 'Honorbuddy Forum' started by kravitz, Jan 17, 2017.

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    1. kravitz

      kravitz New Member

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      Really? I wasn't in discord and don't care to use it, but I can say this. There was no change in subscription keys from 1 to 2, that I recall. Both HB and HB2 were great improvements over the previous version and included expansion updates and updates to warden detection, NOTHING... and I mean nothing was changed in HB3 to be considered a "NEW" application above and beyond what Honorbuddy is. They are all one and the same product and transfered over. Honorbuddy 3 is not a different product, it's the same. However, if Bossland GmbH decided to ditch Honorbuddy and create a fully new application and take snippets of Honorbuddy's code into the new application, then and only then would it be considered a new application, and discontinue the licenses. You cannot argue the fact that it's just been updated to serve the new expansion, as all previous versions had done and provided, but then Bossland GmbH decides they're legally in compliance to completely void all previously sold 'Lifetime' keys (licenses) to it's customer's, which were in fact purchased for Honorbuddy and all updates until the applications End of Life. Wrong. This is clearly a Breach of Contract. It seem's to me, and many other's on the forum, that all Bossland GmbH is attempting to achieve here is to manipulate the definition and terms of a Binding Contract.

      Any type of business transaction:
      You are creating a contract between yourself and the customer, and you as a business/individual are legally bound to stand by it. This analysis is not an analysis regarding being banned for using a bot with Blizzards World of Warcraft, but by using this application you risk violating Blizzards ToS, but again... this isn't concerning that, but is in light to the contract Bossland GmbH has made with it's customer's and the 'Lifetime' license which were sold to their customer's and promised to work as expected and never expire. Yes, there is a contract.

      Lifetime members / subscribers:
      Ok, so on the morning (late) of 2017/01/17 a forum headline message reading: For our long term plans, it is inevitable to do the following changes effective immediately (tomorrow - 18 January 2017). We are changing all existing Demonbuddy and Honorbuddy Lifetime licenses to expire after 2 years of usage., What the heck.. is this crap.

      Clear cut contract
      URL: BosslandGmbH:About Buddy Products - The Buddy Wiki The page was last modified on 24 July 2016, at 06:08.
      Capture[1]: screencapture-wiki-thebuddyforum-index-php-14846 — Postimage.org
      Capture[2]: https://s23.postimg.org/iqyzsb8uz/screencapture_wiki_thebuddyforum_index_php_14846.png

      Below is the direct quote from wiki.thebuddyforum.com

      Now, let's examine this, keeping in mind these answers (Listed #1 and #2, both with 3 bullet points and bolded) are made BY Bossland GmbH, Leipziger Str. 72, 08056 Zwickau, Germany, Phone: +49 375 39099885:

      1. "Will existing 'Lifetime' sessions still work?"
      • Any existing 'Lifetime' sessions will continue to work as expected with no expiration date.
      • The only limitation is that 'Lifetime' sessions are no longer offered for sale, and
      • existing single session 'Lifetime' keys can no longer be expanded with the 1-to-3 session offer

      First of all you decide a Breach of Contract, name it what you want but it's a Breach of Contract and in Germany it's a principle of good faith (Treu und Glauben), and applies to pre-contractual scenarios and to contracts (sec. 242 German Civil Code).

      Now,

      • Any existing 'Lifetime' sessions will continue to work as expected with no expiration date.
      This states to your customer that there is absolutely no expiration date, and that the 'Lifetime' license purchased from Bossland GmbH will continue to function as it had with Honorbuddy until Honorbuddy's End of Life or else termination of the product. This also includes updates to Honorbuddy and revisions to Honorbuddy.

      • The only limitation is that 'Lifetime' sessions are no longer offered for sale,
      States just as it's defined. Once Bossland GmbH ceases the sale of 'Lifetime' licenses for use with Honorbuddy, they can no longer be purchased, However current 'Lifetime' license subscribers will continue to have access to the license and use them with Honorbuddy, see first bullet point.

      • and existing single session 'Lifetime' keys can no longer be expanded with the 1-to-3 session offer
      Here it's discussing, after ceasing sales of 'Lifetime' licenses, current members with single (1) 'Lifetime' license will no longer have the ability to upgrade their current single (1) 'Lifetime' license to include an additional multiple 1, 2, 3 sessions.​


      Additionally

      2. "My lifetime key is showing a 3600 days duration, instead of infinity. Is this right?"
      • This is nothing to be concerned about.
      • Lifetime keys shows up with a "Days Allowed" of 3600. This is an implementation artifact.
      • If the game is still going in 10 years, the key will be extended.

      • This is nothing to be concerned about.
      So, you now have hundreds, if not thousands, of customers annoyed or even pissed off. We're now faced with a Breach of Contract.

      • Lifetime keys shows up with a "Days Allowed" of 3600. This is an implementation artifact.
      Ok, so 'Lifetime' keys (licenses) display as "Days Allowed" of 3600 days, roughly 9.863014 (10) years. Now, it's stated that it's an "implementation artifact," obviously unsure of Bossland GmbH (Honorbuddy) timeline or survival, so you roughly estimate how long the application will survive. That's fair enough, but really has nothing to do with a Breach of Contract or the "LIFETIME" of a 'Lifetime' key (License).

      • If the game is still going in 10 years, the key will be extended.
      Exactly as stated. I believe this says enough.



      Is there any mention of 'Limited Lifetime" keys (licenses)? No, if Bossland GmbH had made it clear to it's customer's then perhaps this issue could have been avoided, or perhaps an announcement on the forums, or some kind of memorandum drafted by Bossland GmbH lawyer's regarding a change in the license structure may have created less of a dramatic affect on their customer's. But there wasn't, it's a very premature decision on their part and not very well thought out, and frankly cause a lot of tension in the future or perhaps draw customer's away due to this abrupt and unwise decision.


      You folks may know a lot about developing applications, but you certainly do not know anything about the law or display any true good faith with or for your customers.
       
      Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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    2. blewsclewsnews

      blewsclewsnews Member

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      Good synopsis of the situation.

      It's pretty obvious that Bossland didn't approach his lawyers to find out if doing this was a good idea from a legal standpoint.
       
    3. socrates3

      socrates3 Member Legendary

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      Dude, let it go. Unless you are physically holding some signed, dated, documents from the time of sale, your just grasping at straws.

      HB also has this on it's main site, completely negating their wiki page.

      DISCLAMER
      II The services on Bossland GmbH ("Bossland") web site are provided "as is". Bossland makes no warranties, expressed or implied, and hereby disclaims and negates all other warranties, including without limitation, implied warranties or conditions of merchantability, or non-infringement of intellectual property or other violation of rights.

      This class-action talk is just ridiculous, and it won't go anywhere.
       
    4. Gentoo

      Gentoo Active Member

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      Oh, here comes socrates to suck ass again.
       
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    5. DrDoctor

      DrDoctor New Member

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      i honestly believe they thought about the law in this? dont you think?
       
    6. kravitz

      kravitz New Member

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      You don't know a thing about general law, especially Contract Law, and spewing out naive crapola. Also I never said anything about "class-action," the post is concerning a clear cut case of Breach of Contract and the lack of good faith thereof.
       
    7. matt84

      matt84 Member

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      Nah dude it's ok, he's a professional Programmer as i'm sure he'll tell you a few times soon, so that makes him knowledgable in all fields, you should trust what he says.
       
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    8. reconnect

      reconnect Member

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      Well said sir. Don't listen to that bully, he's obviously a corporate slave.
       
    9. socrates3

      socrates3 Member Legendary

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      I have common sense. Suing a bot company for $25 is retarded. Good luck, your going to lose
       
    10. matt84

      matt84 Member

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      LOL i don't know if you have had any legal experience in any avenue whatsoever, but law has very little to do with common sense and more to do with umm... law.
       
    11. kravitz

      kravitz New Member

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      Actually you do not. If you had you'd know that this is a analysis (stated in the post heading) of a contractual agreement which has been breached. There are no threats of a lawsuit being made here, period. If anything is being threatened it's Bossland and his staff credibility and loyalty to his (their) customers.

      Also, for a matter of fact people have won thousands over a messily disagreement in courts over contracts. Contact law is a Law of good faith, it's the reason we have laws and to fine (or jail) dirtbags.

      You sir/madam are a fool.
       
      Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
    12. prinnyhater1

      prinnyhater1 Member

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      We do not have to sue them, taking away something they gave us at the end of day will hurt them because their user base is upset, thats bad advertising. but the worst part?! at least to me? the "tomorrow your keys are no good Fuck you".

      Could have been. as of February first or march 1st. or something. That would have gone over better. No, TOMORROW.
       
    13. EleGiggle

      EleGiggle Member

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      Lmao this mongoloid kid ^ Thickest skull in the world.
       
    14. selfadmirer

      selfadmirer New Member

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      Oh yeah...

      6:35 CT, Honorbuddy ban... while sitting here.
      Make that 2 accounts down 6:35. So now I need to get two new accounts AND 2 new keys, lol... bs
       
    15. reconnect

      reconnect Member

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      You're*

      Might have to check that grammar out mate.
       
    16. qztr

      qztr Active Member

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      Suing for $25 isn't really worth it, correct. But you are aware that there are people who has spent THOUSANDS of dollars, towards both LIFETIME licenses and custom rotations/profiles, right?




      Anyway, Honorbuddy has been dying since Legion release, and the "support" (Hi Tony, no, I don't have a log that shows the error, since that's the error. Pls don't close thread) is just complete bullshit.
      Kinda regret even being a part of this community, since the management just went into greed-mode.
       
    17. andyt315

      andyt315 Member

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      What Bossland did is fcked up...it ruins his reputation in long time. I careless about $25 but glad to know I won't be supporting him anymore.
       
    18. UnderratedPost

      UnderratedPost Member

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      Well well well, how very sad! People talking about legal action against the buddy team? Get a life maybe?!?

      Back in the old day when there was a real community people would have been happy to pay a bit more to help fight the legal battles. Bossland could just have take the money they have left and run, but no they are continuing to fight for the botters under difficult circumstances. It is totally understandable that they need to ask people to renew their key to keep this ship sailing!

      I for one salute the simply amazing efforts of bossland and the team and am extremely grateful that you are continuing to provide us this incredible product, the best bot ever made in any game, for practically nothing (25 euros a year is far cheaper than hacks in other games which cost that per month with far less functionality).

      Greedy, over-entitled people that sit around stressing about contract technicalities when the future of this company and bot is at stake make me so mad! Who cares that it said life time, situations change and they had no intention of ever breaching that contract but they could not foresee the future!

      People saying RIP are pathetic, if you say RIP bossland you really say RIP botting. Because there is no one else that can fill their shoes and blizzard will have free reign to target any other smaller bots on the market and their will be no one willing to fight on the legal front.

      Pull your head out of your arses and you will see that this was the only option they had and it's a very reasonable one to any sensible fair minded person.
       
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    19. prinnyhater1

      prinnyhater1 Member

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      I dont think anyones really talking about suing, but if you think what they did today was right, you are an asshole too. Like I have said, if they gave us a few weeks to get ready, people would still be mad, but less people would be and it go over better.
       
    20. CalifRHCP

      CalifRHCP Member

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      If you want to make your displeasure known, the single most simple and effective thing to do is to not purchase a subscription.

      They will collapse to the court costs they're already incurring with out any additional work from you.
       
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