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    Discussion in 'Hearthbuddy Forum' started by MarcoNecroY, May 17, 2014.

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    1. MarcoNecroY

      MarcoNecroY New Member

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      Thanks for replying.

      As I have mentioned several times in the thread: I understand the bot is in beta. And that's perfectly understandable. The bot isn't perfect? That I can understand as well.
      The problem is that if you charge for this, people expect at least SOME quality. At the current state, it has none. In a rank between 1-10, the bot probably stands at 1,5.

      Then again I am not claminig devs are "bad" or trying to rush you. I understand making a bot for hearthstone is difficult and extremely limited.
      But I feel the BASICS of the bot are not covered. Then again, this is a product. If the product doesn't have it's basics components, then people are being scammed.

      Just think about it. People that buy lifetime keys are rather unaffected, but those who don't, aren't. I myself purachsed a monthly one.

      There are different methods to achieve quality. And they aren't strictly releated to how the bot plays.
      - One of them would be to re-launch hearthstone automatically if it times out (which is fairly common). You could have a very bad playing bot, but at least, you could ensure that it would be in-game overnight despite these little inconveniences.
      - One of them would be not to have the bot freeze your HS. In bots like Demonbuddy, you can do stuff like enter game settings, view inventory, etc. Here you are unable to change settings, chat with friends, hover over cards, etc. It makes the whole "watching your bot play" unnessessarily awkward.
      - Increase the speed of the bot. Yes, I understand the bot sometimes takes time to do some things as explained before (due to animations). But taking 10 seconds to mulligan when the animation is around 3 seconds is something that could be improved. Even playing 'blank' cards like a Yeti seem to take unnessessary time as no animations are involved.


      ALL I ask is signs of quality. I don't want any money back, as I like supporting. But I feel this should be a 2-way relation and that you should have more consideration to your users or else, your reputation gets ruined.


      Thank you.
       
    2. Akudo

      Akudo New Member

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      - double post - /facepalm
       
    3. Akudo

      Akudo New Member

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      Let's consider the following scenario (I know this is not the case, but for the sake of the argument, follow along):
      1) There's an infinite amount of bots, therefor we can exclude 'skill' and 'mistakes', so the only thing we have left is the value of a certain deck.

      - you create a deck and order the bot to start playing ranked, before you order the bot to play you are rank etc. 15.
      Depending on how far the deck you created is from the mean (rank 15) it will take x ammount of games before the bot reaches it's rank where it will plateau (50% win ratio). If the bot is better than rank 15, thus it can have a significant higher winratio than 50% before it reaches the rank where it will plateau, and ofc. if the deck is worse then the opposite will happen.

      Extremas
      This is the exception to what I have stated above, if you create a deck so bad, that It will reach rank 20 (you started in 15 in the example), it's a posibility that a 0% win ratio can be achieved, but it's super unlikely (we can conlude a winratio>50%).

      The real world
      The scenario I stated above is ofc. not the case in Hearthstone, the importance of skill-gap and human players instead of machines will eventually result in a plateau win ratio arround 45 % to 55 % if given a large enough sample.

      Final conclusion
      When you are posting your ranked deck, you should state the following if it's a ranked deck:
      I started at x rank, and after y wins and z losses, I have achieved g rank.
       
      Last edited: May 20, 2014
    4. DaSoul

      DaSoul Well-Known Member

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      The bot already manages to support all kind of gameplay (arena, ranked, training...) So you say the bot has no quality but that is just your opinion. Beside that, we have the best protection you can get, the buddyteam has proven over years, that they know how to handle warden. How can you not call this quality? And again, saying from 1-10 it is ranked 1,5 is a ridiculous joke.

      The basics are not covered?

      - He gets my gold cap every day
      - He runs without any crashes
      - He doesn't loop endless playing cards anymore
      - We now have the API

      How is this not quality? and 1,5 ranking? Seriously? Have you ever actually played against a friend using hearthbuddy? It just looks like a regular player. Everything people always demand like "it doesn't hover over cards" "it doesn't play emotes" seriously...nobody cares. It is just botters being paranoid.

      There is no general standard saying "a beta version has to offer xyz", a beta is an unfinished pre-released version. So if YOU buy an unfinished version, you must not expect/demand it to run as a perfectly fine, as a year old optimized software.
       
    5. MarcoNecroY

      MarcoNecroY New Member

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      You know what, it's pointless to discuss.

      After some lurking in this HS forum, the average skill/knowledge of the game is a lot lower than I expected. Most people are probably rank ~15 judging by their "bot decklists".
      I guess I'm the guilty one because I had more expectations. I guess I can't expect a bot to play better than the one who coded it, right?

      @DaSoul: I don't know if you're a dev or a fanboy. But let me tell this: you haven't provided a single proper argument to the discussion yet.
      > ARENA? Honestly? have you ever gotten more than 3 wins in arena? Do you even know what arena is? Using this bot for arena is RIDICULOUS and you would be wasting gold.
      > Best protection? Protection for what? You cannot even get banned playing hearthstone.
      > Basics? Those are program basics, I was talking about the playing basics. If you call picking random cards and missing lethal 'basics', fine.
      > The bot looks LIKE A REGULAR PLAYER? The bot looks like a 4 year old with mental issues.
      > Then again, you are proving me right. By calling this a beta, you're simply making you un-responsible for any kind of complaints. In other words, scamming.

      I'm out. This bot is going nowhere.
       
    6. zuabros

      zuabros Active Member

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      All I can say is (my humble 10 cents):

      1 - Yes, the bot does a lot of basic mistakes
      2 - The bot can get ~50% winrates at rank 20 / unranked, with a reasonably basic deck. I dont care if it is 47%, it is still good enough.
      3 - As long as everybody agrees that it is impossible to get more than 50% winrate in a ranked system, I dont care if bot does stupid gameplay, as long as it farm my daily 100g and completes the quest playing with classes I dislike - AND THE BOT DOES THAT VERY EFFICIENTLY.
      4 - Only improvement possible to the bot, and the only real improvement I care about, is TO PLAY EFFECTIVELY IN ARENA, so that we can farm arena all day (if we get the entrance fee back). That would require winning at least 4 games to be cost-effective, and 7 games to allow endless arena runs.
       
    7. Weridoz

      Weridoz New Member

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      I almost shit myself. The opponent had 10 hp left and I had a soul fire in my hand. I drew Leeroy the last turn and was certain of a win. Then the bot decides to soul fire first and discarding my Leeroy. I cried everi tiem.

      Other than that the bots seems to get 50% win ratio after 100+ plays in ranked, nothing to complain about. I might change the "problem" cards to something more basic until the bot learn the strategies better.
       
    8. hankerspace

      hankerspace DEVELOPER Buddy Core Dev

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      You really think you are better than devs ? You really think your few games and few ranks won prove that you are a good player?

      Ask for a refund et get out of this forum if you are trashtalking like that.

      Please, dont be a retard, use API and build your custom deck AI, let me know your Hearthstone skills.
       
    9. MarcoNecroY

      MarcoNecroY New Member

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      Lol butthurt much?

      What makes you think I am not better than devs? If you have NO clue about my "skills". You are just speaking from your anger.

      Feel free to add me MarcoNecroX#1790 maybe we can play some games and we will share the results on here.
       
    10. zuabros

      zuabros Active Member

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      Added for fun gameplay.
       
    11. DaSoul

      DaSoul Well-Known Member

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      That you don't even know that Hearthstone uses Warden shows how less knowledge you have about this. "You cannot even get banned playing hearthstone." that really made me laugh.

      And no, i am not an dev neither a fanboy, i am just a member that is obviously arround here some months and years more then you. I know this team better then you. By your (obvious) non-existing buddybot experience saying this is scam or this bot wouldn't go anywhere, you clearly show you haven't seen any single buddybot evolve over time. This bot is going nowhere? Come back in some time and regret what you said. In the meantime feel free to use those injection bots and lose your account. Ah wait, an expert once said, you can't get banned...
       
    12. DaSoul

      DaSoul Well-Known Member

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      If you are better then hankerspace, well, feel free to code some perfect playing custom classes.
       
    13. steone

      steone Member

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      Since API is released please go make your own deck, rules and logic so that you can get whatever you're whining about.... But i'm doubting about it since what you really seem to be capable of is whining, complaining and trashtalking....


      So.....

      This!
       
    14. MarcoNecroY

      MarcoNecroY New Member

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      God, are people dumb or do you REALLY think a bot will ever beat a human at a decent level? (aka rank 12 or lower)

      That clearly shows you don't know anything about HS. There is a thing called the METAGAME and it involves a lot of prediction and knowledge about the decks that are popular currently. Bots are based on algorithms, they cannot make assumptions like "enemy is playing around Swipe, maybe I shouldn't play more minions on turn 3" or realising whether they are fighting against zoo or handlock, etc. The bot wouldn't know when he has to keep his life above 14 in case a Druid has FoN+SR combo (do people here even know what that means? lol), things like that are the reasons why the bot will never have a decent skill level. If you guys played the game a bit more and understood how the bot works and what potential does it have, you would know that bots would never have a decent playing level. Just look at the HS AI coded by Blizzard, do you really think hearthbuddy bot will ever get reasonably better than it? I doubt that.

      That said, why are you people asking me to make my own deck logic? Like that is going to prove anything. Seems like another excuse to defend the bot's bad quality. "Hey, the bot misses lethal? oh well YOU make your own API, we don't care we already got your money". Also making my own API would in no way reflect my 'skills' in playing this game. Then again as I mentioned before, HS is based a lot on prediction, metagame knowledge, luck & knowing when you "should" take a risk and when not.

      You guys should start acting less butthurt and accept objective criticism. If you just come to this thread to flame me, you're wasting your time because it doesn't affect me a tiny bit. I already gave my in-game ID so I'd gladly teach any of you how you play this game.
       
      Last edited: May 21, 2014
    15. hankerspace

      hankerspace DEVELOPER Buddy Core Dev

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      Definitely, you know absolutely nothing about bots. I don't care, you should be just stupid, I think everyone has understood it.

      Anyway, stop your trashtalking and grow up ;).

      Never post such messages on buddy forum.
       
    16. MarcoNecroY

      MarcoNecroY New Member

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      So many arguments! No wonder you're a dev, this explains a lot to me on why the bot sucks. :D

      I guess one can't expect more from someone who is 30 years old and still a virgin.

      If you "don't care" why are you still replying in this thread? You are embarassing yourself.
       
    17. scrampc

      scrampc New Member

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      this bot is getting better every update, I heard there are others better, but 50% win rate is ok for me, and I'm sure it will get better with each version or with some api from other user
      if I don't use others is because I preffer this company experience with warden, used the wow bot years ago and never got banned.
      so yeah, maybe this bot isn't the best, but I'm sure is the safest

      haven't readed all thread but Marconecro last post is straight trolling, can he just get a refund and leave?
       
    18. MarcoNecroY

      MarcoNecroY New Member

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      So how is it that I am the troll?
      A dev guy who has "forum rules" on his sig yet calls me stupid on each of his posts because he lacks arguments, isn't?
       
    19. Hawker

      Hawker Well-Known Member Buddy Core Dev

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      This thread seems to generate a lot of heat and very little light.

      The bot has an API - if you are not happy with how it plays, you can replace the logic with your own.

      If you don't know how to code, you can make constructive suggestions and see if a community dev likes your ideas enough to code them.

      Feel free to post along these lines. The core bot will carry on with its current development path - we are happy that it does what it does without bans and the priority now is to improve the API so that the community developers can take the bot in whatever direction they want.
       
    20. DaSoul

      DaSoul Well-Known Member

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      You are the troll cause you:

      - Have no clue about programing, but talk about how crap hankerspace does his work
      - Make fun of anti-detection mechanism and don't even know Warden
      - Have absolutely no clue about technical possibilities of a bot
      - Don't unterstand the status "beta"
      - Call the bot scam
       
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