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  • [PAID] Sushi - Balls Deep (Rogue)

    Discussion in 'Rogue' started by TheFuture, Oct 21, 2014.

    1. EMIHM

      EMIHM New Member

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      It's not using Rupture in Sublety, is this a bug with the latest release or is this intended?

      EDIT: Nevermind, restarted HB and reloaded the profile and it's fine with Rupture, but there's other problems.

      Doesn't use Shadow Dance and Premeditation on cooldown with cooldowns enabled.
      Doesn't optimise Find Weakeness at all, with using Vanish + Preparation and Shadow Dance to keep the buff up pretty much constantly. An amazing opener is, the initial ambush gives 10 seconds of FW, when that runs out thats when its supposed to use Shadow Dance, not right on pull, when the subsequent FW runs out, Vanish. After that is about to run out, that's when its supposed to Premeditate and use Vanish again. On a 588 rogue its a 60-70k opener, easy. Right now it just mashes everything together.

      After that, idk one attempt, it's got crazy damage, next, it's piss poor.
      Rupture also only around 80% uptime.
       
      Last edited: Nov 4, 2014
    2. Unimatrix

      Unimatrix New Member

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      Assassination is pretty much perfect.

      But sub should get some love as well as combat.

      For sub, everything emi said.

      For combat, It should pop adrenaline rush when bandit guile is red or at least yellow (regardless of setting always or onboss). Also I've noticed that when it does pop it, it's not using all the energy that it generates, few of the times it actually stayed at 100% energy for quite some time (1-2 seconds) and that is an extra sinister missed or two even.

      Also the bot logs as necrophilla in HB instead of sushi or whatever it was.

      Keep up the good work!
       
    3. <Weischbier>

      <Weischbier> Member Buddy Store Developer

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      Thanks! I'll look into it :)

      best wishes,

      Weischbier

      Edit: Nightly build is kinda unstable. I hope we get a stable build today or tomorrow, so i can do some serious changes without worrying about if it is my routine or HB.
       
      Last edited: Nov 4, 2014
    4. starlite68

      starlite68 Member

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      hey, i tried this out on trial. looks like it's still in development, i hope this keeps going as there's not a lot of options for rogues right now.

      since this is designed for raiding, i have a few suggestions:

      in raiding a lot of the defensive CDs aren't really used. like, you'd never pop smoke just because your HP is X%, it's a raid CD and used manually when the fight calls for it. similarly, for anything other than semi-afk LFR the offensive CDs are used manually as well, since stuff like killing spree will kill you and popping a 30 sec vendetta 2 sec before the boss goes immune or you have to switch to adds or something is a complete waste. however, no harm done with having those options users can toggle them as they wish.

      what you DO want for sure though, is a on/off toggle for auto-feint. not based on HP, but user toggled for when we know damage is going out, then off when we don't need it. since it uses energy and losing HP is a normal part of many boss fights, you really need an option to manually control it. so please consider adding that in, a glyphed/talented feint is literally the best damn thing rogues have in raiding including mythic. and having it auto-renew instead of fighting the bot to hit it manually every 7 sec is amazing.

      otherwise as mentioned combat/assassination look pretty good, sub is a mess but who cares, can be fixed later.
       
    5. Unimatrix

      Unimatrix New Member

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      ^This.
       
    6. <Weischbier>

      <Weischbier> Member Buddy Store Developer

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      Does the "tosoak" not work for you properly?
      It will use feint according to the modifiers.

      For example:
      Timemod: 5
      Hpmod: 80

      This goes as follows:
      if incoming damage over the last 5s is greater than maxhealth*hpmod/100 then feint

      but I can add a hotkey toggle for sure.

      best wishes,

      Weischbier
       
    7. Unimatrix

      Unimatrix New Member

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      Honestly, math may be perfect but in raids we've got unknown variables floating everywhere, what if a HoT comes off breaking your formula and killing me in the process :)

      I'm always down for more features and having a toggle to keep feint on at all times is WAY useful rather than relying on the bot to do it based on a formula or me trying to smash the button between gcd's.

      Thanks for all your hard work :D
       
    8. starlite68

      starlite68 Member

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      yes in raids feint is used manually. there is no way to make a formula work for it because there are many mechanics where you take (sometimes big) damage but there is no need to do anything about it. eg, thok. other times you know that the next phase has damage and just use it, or it allows you to stand in fire and dps while the rest of the melee has to gtfo. most importantly it's very often used preemptively - when you are at 100%, and not after you already took damage, because you know in 3 sec massive damage is incoming for more than your whole HP bar (eg, morchok). instead you get hit for 60% less or whatever.

      speaking of toggles, how does aoe work here? fan of knives specifically. is there a key to press to go to a fan of knives rotation in assassination (basically replace mutilate with FoK), and if not is it planned? another must have.
       
    9. crampleg

      crampleg Member

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      anyway to make it not auto stealth?
       
    10. <Weischbier>

      <Weischbier> Member Buddy Store Developer

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      I'll add a hotkey for it.
      If you press it, it'll use Feint.

      I'll add a setting to let you chose if it should auto stealth.

      best wishes,

      Weischbier
       
    11. Hardcano

      Hardcano Member

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      No, really no. Is an amazing opener for you lose the chance of Ambushing for 10 seconds of procs (trinkets/weapons enchant)? Are you serious?

      Let me explain why i said this:

      If you are a 588 rogue i suppose you have a 4/4 Mythic WF AoC equipped. This leads me to think you have a 39 seconds CD on Shadow Dance. Am i right?

      And... What happens when you have Shadow Dance every 39 seconds? Let me show you something very interesting:

      S&D = Slice and Dice
      SD = Shadow Dance
      FW = Find Weakness
      GCD = Global Cooldown = 1 second

      • Pre-Pot -> Stealth -> Premeditation -> S&D -> Ambush -> Hemorrhage (glyphed) -> Rupture -> SD = 18 seconds FW uptime when you land your last Ambush before SD ends
      • At this point waits FW ends, then: Vanish + Preparation macro -> Premeditation + Ambush macro = 28 seconds FW
      • Waits again FW ends, then: Vanish -> Ambush = 38 seconds FW
      • At this point: SD again = 56 seconds FW uptime with 1 second downtime (realistically a GCD)
      97% uptime in the first minute of fight without taking into account the T16 4p bonus. If your Backstab turn into Ambush during this cycle, you can delay the first or the second Vanish until FW ends.

      And i want to suggest something to the last minute subtlety rogues in the world:
      Ask your healer to spam hots/healing before pull until you gain 10 combo point due to Honor Among Thieves.

      Pre-Pot -> Stealth -> S&D -> Ambush -> Rupture -> SD

      With this trick you can save a GCD (no Hemorrhage) and move your Premeditation from opener into SD to land a further Eviscerate.
       
    12. Chadakkins

      Chadakkins New Member

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      Bought the profile a week or two ago. Used it first time in raid environment last night and Assass was god damn good! Sub is pretty damn close but still really good. As i'm sure you know combat could use a little bit of polishing but I don't expect any huge changes until WoD is out and HB is ready to go. One question I do have though is how do you have the auto interrupts set. Is it X time left in a cast when it interrupts or some other formula. Just wondering if I could turn up the rate or something just to pad the old interrupt charts in my guild lol
       
    13. BestWarOCE

      BestWarOCE Member

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      (Assassination issue) Not sure its just me, but the vanish as a DPS cooldown doesn't seem to work properly. It shouldn't be vanishing right after it opens? And it pauses briefly when vanishing instead of instantly attacking again.

      I ended up turning Vanish as a DPS cooldown off because it seemed to be a DPS loss the way it was behaving.
       
      Last edited: Nov 5, 2014
    14. EMIHM

      EMIHM New Member

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      Pretty much what I was saying, you want to chain the FW. I may not have explained it to the degree of you but yeah.. what this profile is doing, is it's not waiting for the FW to almost run out, it's just using SD, Vanish then Premeditates then Vanishes again all in the space of 10 seconds or so, thus my comment on not blowing everything at once.
       
    15. BestWarOCE

      BestWarOCE Member

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      Please don't forget to test Vanish on a dummy.. theres a delay between when its vanish's and reopens on the target.
       
    16. <Weischbier>

      <Weischbier> Member Buddy Store Developer

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      Alright folks, whole upcoming weekend you'll get all my love! Over your mouth...!!!!

      Nah :p

      Serisouly though, I copied all your comments in txt file for me to check back and will commit all I can to get it where it belongs. #1
      Rogue hasn't seen much love, because Necrophilia had occupied me, where in teh end it was a small bug crippling the whole routine -.-*


      best wishes,

      Weischbier
       
    17. Unimatrix

      Unimatrix New Member

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      Great news :)

      I just hope you keep on working on the routine and push updates constantly :)

      Thanks!
       
    18. Noxucow

      Noxucow Member

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      Great, thanks! Im sure throughout WoD we will see rankings with Sushi ;)
       
    19. BestWarOCE

      BestWarOCE Member

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      not sure exactly how you've coded the rotation but i found this on mmochamp: (Assassination)
      Code:
      [U]Rotation priority:[/U]
      open from Stealth, cast Mutilate (cheap because of Shadow Focus, can proc Dispatch)
      use Mutilate as CP builder, when the boss gets to 35% HP switch to Dispatch instead
      when a free Dispatch procs, try to use it asap when Evenom buff is up
      put up Slice and Dice at whatever CP you get (if you're not level 100, WoD perk makes it passive)
      keep up 5CP Rupture
      use 5CP Envenom
      
      Venomous Wounds has been removed, and now Rupture (not Garrote) has it baked with a buffed 100% proc chance; this means that maximizin Rupture uptime is now even more mandatory than it was before.
      
      Envenom buff has been buffed from a 15% to a 30% increased poison proc chance, making it stronger; avoid buf clipping as much as possible pooling energy and delaying Envenom the most you can. Cut to the Chase has been removed from the game, but its effect is now baked into Envenom itself.
      
      A great role in the spec is covered by Dispatch: it is out execute-type move, triggering at 35% and should be used instead of Mutilate. Also Blindside proc is now baked into Mutilate itself, and it will grant you a free Dispatch use regardless of target HP - you should aim to use it asap, and without wasting CP (which can be difficult sometimes due to Seal Fate). 
      
      Finishers are listed as 5CP because you'll want to take Anticipation as lvl 90 talent - MfD may be better in an heavy-switching fight, but keep in mind that you're bringing your combo points with you from target to target no losing anything, devaluing the MfD role.
      
      Assassination has also a good "cleave mechanic": you can switch targets and keep rupture up on 2+ targets. The damage gain is sensible and the rotation is faster due top multiple Rupture proccing more Venomous Wounds and thus granting us more energy regen. Managing the cycle and Rupture on multiple targets can be difficult sometimes, but it definitely pays off. 
      
      When you need sustained AoE (4+ targets), just use FoK as combo builder, and throw up Rupture on target, then switch. Crimson Tempest starts to be valuable only with 5+ targets, and you start to weave it into rotation only when all of your targets have already Rupture on - anyway there's still research to do and find if there is an actual breakpoint on which multi-Rupture falls behind Crimson Tempest.
      
      [B]Vendetta[/B]: major dps CD, but requires to have a 20 second window to focus on boss; ideally to use it on CD and aligned wth bloodlust/heroism and/or procs..

      This is a guide from the rogue forums:
      Code:
      [U]Single Target:[/U]
      Keep SnD up, keep Rupture up and use Envenom when you have spare CPs. Don't clip Envenoms. Use Mutilate to build CPs, or Dispatch if you have a Blindside proc or the target is below 35%
      
      The priority system is as follows:
      
      1-2 CP SnD if not already up > Maintain 5 CP Rup > Envenom
      
      There are a few things to note here. It's better to have any kind of Rupture up than no Rupture. If you can, only use 5 CP Rups, but if you lapse in keeping it up and you have no energy, no Rup and 3 CPs or less, go ahead and Rup. You run the risk of not getting energy returns from Relentless Strikes, but it's better than languishing for 3-10 seconds because you have no Venomous Wounds procs. If you have 3+ CPs and will soon have the energy for another Mutilate or Dispatch, you may want to wait though. It's one of those instinctual moments. The best solution, however, is to just watch Rupture carefully and make sure it doesn't fall off.
      
      Slice and Dice requires no maintenance most of the time as Assassination. Any Envenom, from 1 CP to 5 CPs, will refresh SnD to a duration of 36 seconds, the max it can be with set bonuses or other effects. So it's usually a good idea to only get a low CP SnD rolling and then quickly maximize it with an Envenom.
      
      [B]Building combo points is simple:
      
      Dispatch (Target below 35%, Blindside proc) > Mutilate[/B]
      
      [B]For opening out of Stealth[/B], you should be opening with Mutilate. Why Mutilate? Mutilate has double the chance to apply poisons, costs less energy than Ambush and can proc Dispatch, so Ambush is the weaker option in this case.
      
      Listen up!
      
      [U]Multiple Targets:[/U]
      Continue with your single target rotation, replacing your CP generator with Fan of Knives. Maintain Rupture on 1-3 targets. Alternate between Envenom and Crimson Tempest for your finishers when not applying Rupture.
      
      When you're engaging more than one target, your rotation stays more or less the same. You're going to be maintaining Rupture on 2-3 targets. This will give you more than enough energy to spam Fan of Knives constantly (Which grants 2 CPs now when you crit!) and extra damage through Venomous Wounds. More Fan of Knives casts means many more poison applications, which is your #1 source of damage. Only use Envenom if you're at risk of losing SnD or if none of your Ruptures need to be refreshed. Use Crimson Tempest if you get 5 CPs and the Envenom buff is still up.
       
      Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
    20. Kasamaka

      Kasamaka New Member

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      Hello guys , i just saw this routine for rogs and i want some feedback please , is't top or so and so, and am talking to high end pve players please.
      also is there an option u can easily toggle Aoe off and on? from all the Paid CR i used the only one i saw that his doing it very good and simple is Millz , so please tell about this as it's also major thing for me. thanks alot guys <3
       

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